tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post113363542391199379..comments2023-10-19T22:49:15.517+01:00Comments on Ulster's Doomed!: Unionist economicsHorsemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16655806346968204169noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-4714719782233111822010-04-13T21:54:19.841+00:002010-04-13T21:54:19.841+00:00Coming from the south I always somewhat suspected ...Coming from the south I always somewhat suspected that "you couldn't afford us" might be a vieled threat - namely that after reunification the costs would soar due to security issues - the presumption that the south (or New Republic) would have to spend as much on security in the north as th UK government had to in the 1980s.<br /><br />I know this is probably southern ignorance and typical paranoia on NI issues. But it does hang in the back of a lot of minds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-72974608615831163282010-04-05T09:39:30.381+00:002010-04-05T09:39:30.381+00:00http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/0...http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/05/gordon-brown-to-make-7-60-an-hour-living-wage-election-pledge-115875-22162834/hoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-49493133205850920972010-04-05T09:06:27.761+00:002010-04-05T09:06:27.761+00:00http://oconallstreet.com/2010/04/05/dup-u-turn-on-...http://oconallstreet.com/2010/04/05/dup-u-turn-on-corporation-tax-reduction-jobs-obviously-not-a-priority-for-them/hoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-8900236755042619112010-04-03T15:31:47.235+00:002010-04-03T15:31:47.235+00:00"I only know of Mainland Ireland."
I ta..."I only know of Mainland Ireland."<br /><br />I take your point, believe me; but I'm using the reference because, like it or not, NI is currently a constitutional constituent country of the UK, and the shorthand for that is "British". But I don't consider the movement of people from, say, Monaghan to Armagh (or vice-versa) to constitute 'immigration' in the real sense, probably for all the same reasons you wouldn't. On the other hand, I think we'd all agree that someone moving from Monaghan to Manchester fits the bill. Hence "mainland Britain".Paddy Canuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845416342614243491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-46714945579049419812010-04-02T16:04:03.653+00:002010-04-02T16:04:03.653+00:00I'm sure in referring to mainland Britain, PC ...I'm sure in referring to mainland Britain, PC was distinguishing it from it's satellite islands such as Hebrides, Isle of Skye etc. which, unlike the mainland have not benefited from the Irish diaspora. Or not since Colmcille at any rate. :)New times, New approachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-50356718325467352912010-04-01T23:57:14.916+00:002010-04-01T23:57:14.916+00:00PC@1april 1
"benefit of mainland Britain,&qu...PC@1april 1<br /><br />"benefit of mainland Britain,"<br /><br />I only know of Mainland Ireland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-40438858060842549702010-04-01T20:09:49.352+00:002010-04-01T20:09:49.352+00:00Colm said:
"Ireland has long suffered from a...Colm said:<br /><br />"Ireland has long suffered from a lack of belief in our potential as a nation."<br /><br />That's true, and it's been greatly to the benefit of mainland Britain, North America, and Australia. With the help of the expatriate Irish, all those lands became what Ireland should have been. Ireland is by far the European country with the largest diaspora relative to its home population.Paddy Canuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845416342614243491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-87462092261450357602010-04-01T20:03:49.712+00:002010-04-01T20:03:49.712+00:00Anonymous said:
"At opportunities for compro...Anonymous said:<br /><br />"At opportunities for compromise groups like Peoples Democracy did all they could to make sure there was no back off"<br /><br />Are you at all aware of the hows and whys of the failure of the Sunningdale Agreement...? Do the words "unionist general strike" mean anything to you?Paddy Canuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845416342614243491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-50055440326427191772010-04-01T20:00:48.565+00:002010-04-01T20:00:48.565+00:00New times, New approach said:
"Something imp...New times, New approach said:<br /><br />"Something important is missing in the lives of those people who need to invent a nationality of 'Britishness' to compensate for the rejection of their own national identity. It is something not deficient in the make-up of the Scot or Welshman."<br /><br />Bravo, NTNA! You really deftly thread the needle.Paddy Canuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845416342614243491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-56909698077913300262010-04-01T12:10:34.708+00:002010-04-01T12:10:34.708+00:00The good people of Liverpool don't read the Su...The good people of Liverpool don't read the Sun newspaper after the papers coverage of Hillsborough. So that makes less British in your eyes?hoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-89614515216833666562010-04-01T01:22:36.169+00:002010-04-01T01:22:36.169+00:00Excellent work a chara. Having been a regular read...Excellent work a chara. Having been a regular reader of this blog for quite some time, I think this is the finest article you have posted yet. While I admire much of what your blog sets out to achieve, I feel that it is the economic, rather than the religious/tribal argument that is the most progressive and realistic means of achieving a united Ireland in our lifetimes. As a republican from Dublin I put your argument in this article to a friend of mine, a Catholic SDLP member happy to maintain the union on the basis that the south couldn't afford a united Ireland. He grudgingly ceded the point that anyone making the argument that Ireland couldn't afford to be united is admitting that Northern Ireland is a failed political entity. Ireland has long suffered from a lack of belief in our potential as a nation. Convincing Irish people that our economic potential could best be realised through unity is no small task. This article points us at least some way in the right direction.Colmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-20682895439244189402010-03-31T05:31:14.834+00:002010-03-31T05:31:14.834+00:00ta for the links hoboroad.ta for the links hoboroad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-22970987286488634542010-03-30T22:23:35.591+00:002010-03-30T22:23:35.591+00:00Northern Ireland is a "failed economic entity...Northern Ireland is a "failed economic entity" because a 30 year PIRA campaign purposely failed it. Look at the economic targeting of infrastructure and town centers, industrial decline bit hard at the start of the troubles but if you look at the north of England or the Clyde region of Scotland they recovered. <br /><br />We didn't in Northern Ireland as the PIRA kept the economic boot stamped hard on all of our faces and ripped everything they could out of the guts of the social and economic fabric here.<br /><br />At opportunities for compromise groups like Peoples Democracy did all they could to make sure there was no back off and to keep the pot boiling, and their leaders are now to be naively immortalized in film for this?<br /><br />I feel no association to the south other than the people are generally friendly if narrow minded and the landscape pretty in places, I certainly don't intend to join with them just because the PIRA armed by Fianna Fail wrecked the Northern Ireland econommy.<br /><br />Before the troubles the south was a basket case, their senior FF politicians armed the PIRA to destroy the Northern states economy and it's status in the United Kingdom.<br /><br />I have no interest in joining with them, it's bad enough watching the murders they armed sleeze their patronising, blood soaked, fake political correctness veneered way around at Stormont.<br /><br />My culture (TM) and values bare little relation to those that prevail in the south, there is nothing on offer for me there and a good number of southerners I have met are openly massively bigoted against northern protestants when they have not quite realised my background. The "do they speak irish" test they quietly try out is always my favorite. An expression of culture indeed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-78330796586589322682010-03-30T20:11:45.959+00:002010-03-30T20:11:45.959+00:00Anonymous (17:26)
Read what I wrote again. You ha...Anonymous (17:26)<br /><br />Read what I wrote again. You have completely misunderstood it.<br /><br />'what other citizen of the United Kingdom would say, I am British first' is a question.<br /><br />We agree!New times, New approachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-70311661936740532732010-03-30T18:29:51.831+00:002010-03-30T18:29:51.831+00:00"Sure loads of Dubs identify hugely with Brit..."Sure loads of Dubs identify hugely with British culture"<br /><br />Q: The Red Devil Bar is located on which famous Irish street?<br /><br />1. O'Connel St<br />2. Patrick St<br />3. The Falls Rd<br /><br />A: 3<br /><br />You'll find as many Premiership-following, Eastenders-watching, Sun-reading 'West Brits' in West Belfast as you will in Dublin, if not more. It was only in 1982 they stopped voting for Redmondites who took their seats in the British parliament, Dubs stopped doing that in 1918.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-13401472009241467052010-03-30T17:26:29.836+00:002010-03-30T17:26:29.836+00:00New times, New approach, you are in a small minori...New times, New approach, you are in a small minority if you consider British for primary identity and Welsh secondary. Most people on the island of Great Britain associate more with their particular nation than anything else, and the term "British" is more a technicality.<br /><br />This true of the English more than anyone else, in fact there are fewer unionists in Britain than in any other part of the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-25482758617596656792010-03-30T16:18:14.465+00:002010-03-30T16:18:14.465+00:00http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/859554...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8595547.stmhoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-36818648241387958802010-03-30T13:40:13.735+00:002010-03-30T13:40:13.735+00:00Dazzler,
Thanks, I'll look at them, but it wo...<b>Dazzler</b>,<br /><br />Thanks, I'll look at them, but it won't be for a day or two as I'm just about to head off on business.Horsemannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-91789431676065852802010-03-30T12:56:48.895+00:002010-03-30T12:56:48.895+00:00http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/public-accounts/...http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/public-accounts/2010/03/cameron-salmond-party-scottishhoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-24143271237269511332010-03-30T12:53:15.683+00:002010-03-30T12:53:15.683+00:00http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100031984...http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100031984/will-the-tories-break-up-the-united-kingdom-who-cares/hoboroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01474379737795624096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-41935459091280317182010-03-30T12:21:07.645+00:002010-03-30T12:21:07.645+00:00Horseman, figures on deaths in the north for 2009 ...Horseman, figures on deaths in the north for 2009 have been published http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demography/publications/births_deaths/deaths_2009.pdfDazzlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-53054670297841007722010-03-30T11:02:28.527+00:002010-03-30T11:02:28.527+00:00I'm not sure I agree with a unionist claim tha...I'm not sure I agree with a unionist claim that (to paraphrase), 'Our culture is British and therefore incompatible with a Gaelic one'.<br />Firstly, who resembles the Ulster protestant most in mannerisms, use of idiom, sense of humour etc. You're right - it's the Ulster catholic. To integrate with the rest of Ireland does not require the sacrifice of 'Our freedom, religion and laws'. Nor does it necessitate fluency in Irish, familiarity with the exploits of the Fianna or an ability to recite the 1916 proclamation from memory. Ireland now, like every other European nation is a country of diversity, but also retaining a pride in an essential Irish identity. It has accommodated our protestant countrymen for many hundreds of years and many of them too have contributed substantially to that Irish identity.<br />Secondly, what other citizen of the United Kingdom would say, I am British first, but (for example) Scottish second. My loyalty, sense of identity and culture is fully encapsulated in my Britishness. I am (e.g.) Welsh second (or I deny my Welshness), and I don't know why some of us choose to use a long dead language on our signposts.<br />Something important is missing in the lives of those people who need to invent a nationality of 'Britishness' to compensate for the rejection of their own national identity. It is something not deficient in the make-up of the Scot or Welshman. It is also something that they are deprived of only by their own refusal to accept it.New times, New approachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-18085369400056635112010-03-30T07:14:25.654+00:002010-03-30T07:14:25.654+00:00Good argument, but perhaps unionism is not using e...Good argument, but perhaps unionism is not using economics as the primary reason<br />to resist Irish unity.. these days they seem to use "culture" an awful lot. How their culture is not compatible with "gaelic" culture, etc.<br /><br />So in that sense, I think the real nut to crack is separating culture from constitutionality, much like you have done here with economics.<br /><br />In other words, why must it be a prerequisite that NI remain a British territory, merely because <br />many of its people have a British identity?<br /><br />Sure loads of Dubs identify hugely with British culture, sometimes moreso than they do<br />the rest of the south. But.. so what? Most Aussies and Kiwis are basically Brits too, a few generations removed. Again, so what?<br /><br />Why do the NI British feel the need to remain inside the UK bubble in order to fully express their culture?<br /><br />Perhaps this is the kernal - that unionism fears its Britishness being subsumed and destroyed by a gaelic Irish state. This is pertinent given the backdrop of the last few decades. <br /><br />Without those fears being geniunely allayed, there can be no unity. After all, a unified Ireland would have to be a state for everyone on the island, not just the cultural majority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-80286644824516584812010-03-29T20:32:49.047+00:002010-03-29T20:32:49.047+00:00http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments...http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/dup-regaining-confidence-or-is-there-an-election-coming-up/<br /><br />Broad sweeping conclusions here Horseman. (eg Comparing a European to other elections)<br />Your comments would be welcome?bangordubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11143383902510299554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1062377461026943825.post-86014118843229208922010-03-29T17:02:17.793+00:002010-03-29T17:02:17.793+00:00Horseman, remember what Wilson said about, in part...Horseman, remember what Wilson said about, in particular, the Unionist population in this part of Ireland.<br />There is an expectation that they will be maintained, so in 1998 when it was mooted, and possible, that 12% Corporation tax could have applied in all 32 counties, the opposition came from the Unionist voices, lower costs, living standards etc. would have led to greater investment but was unaffordable to international business, juxtaposed as we are with the rest of Ireland.<br />The fact remains, with six county infrastructure, history and education we can command the same wages I earn in Dublin throughout the six counties, jobs will come, Unionisms continued reticence to re-join the rest of the nation shows an appalling ignorance, being they would assume immense electoral power in a Dail with maintainence of their devolved administration in Stormont.<br />It reminds me a little of Jim Molyneaux' statement on RTE about 30 years ago, in response to a question on the potential of a 'nationalist majority' he replied it was his opinion catholics would vote to remain in the uk as the social security benefits attaching were better than in the Republic.<br />In other words know your place, or, croppy lie down, times have changed and an all-Ireland economy must preface political reunification to advise our Protestant citizens that their living standards will not reduce upon achievement.menacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688888726966925636noreply@blogger.com