The names of the two men charged with the attempted murder of the PSNI student in Garrison have been released. One is Kevin Barry Nolan, who stood for election in the 2005 local elections in the Erne West DEA of Fermanagh – the same DEA in which Garrison is situated.
In 2005 the supporters of last Saturday's blow for Irish freedom numbered only 115 – barely 1.6% of the vote in Erne West, which is a very nationalist area. As a percentage of the vote in Fermanagh as a whole, Mr Nolan's vote represented 0.37% - hardly a mandate.
However, Nolan reappeared in 2007, when he signed the nomination papers for Gerry McGeough, who, in the larger electoral area of Fermanagh and South Tyrone managed a total vote of 814, or 1.75% of the votes cast in the constituency.
And yet Nolan thinks he has a mandate to kill for Ireland?
If nothing else, this is going to embarrass McGeough, and ensure some police attention for his other supporters.
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And what percentage of the 'people of Ireland' voted for PSF during The Provo's campaign? Did they have a mandate for all the murders they committed? Far more than dissident Republicans have carried out. Could someone explain what it is differentiates dissident Republican murders from those carried out by PIRA?
Hardline unionist endorses RIRA recruiting slogan in attempt to score cheap political point.
I do have to point out that a majority of the people of Ireland voted for a sinn fein led government a few years ago. Unfortunately that was put down by force by the british government and an artificial border created under the threat of unionist violence, backed up by an early form of ethnic cleansing.
By the way Horseman,
That is history and I absolutely agree with your point about the idiots running around fermanagh.
They, like certain others are condemned to repeat the mistakes of history, thank god the rest of us are moving on
Finally,
at the risk (Certainty) of being accused of brown nosing, Congrats on your mention atthe Slugger awards,
Well deserved and just reward for meticulous research and objective analysis.
Hoboroad, where are ye?
FAO bangordub:
You certainly moved on. Ditched the 'free and independent Republic' for the 'hell' of the 'sectarian orange statelet', firmly part of The United Kingdom.
Speaks volumes.
The Irish. If they didn't exist a comedian would make them up. LOL
while the Brits are in Ireland, someone will get stuck into them, simple. i don't think its a good idea at the minute, but its an inevitability. i for one defend their right, ireland unfree, ultimate complete peace, impossibility.
Bangordub,
Glad you've moved north and chosen to ignore the border. This is how it deserves to be treated and if enough people follow your example we'll see the orange statelet expire sooner rather than later.
No doubt a considerable sense of humour is needed, for the moment.
Anonymous,
Nail on the head.
Thank you
Anybody read Seumus Milne's article in the Guardian?
Heres the link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/25/london-dublin-terrorist-incident-unionists
Interesting article
A chairde go léir,
Any word on the propesd name change of Derry city to Derry city and the binning of the repugnant london reference.
slán
Sorry Robert Emmet 1803
I see Channel 4 are investing money in the Slugger O'Toole website.
Bangordub,
Thanks for the link
Watcher, Can you only whistle the one tune? 'Could someone explain what it is (that) differentiates dissident Republican murders from those carried out by PIRA?'.
We must at some time put the past behind us. Yes what the IRA did was repugnant and contrary to all moral and social values, much the same as what the British state and it's absentee landlords did in Ireland (north and south) over so many centuries.
Study the period 1840-1850. At the beginning of it the population of Ireland was around 8 million, at the end around 4 million. The lucky ones left on coffin ships for the new world where they had a slim chance of arriving alive. And if you think they were all Catholics then you are mistaken. Surely the working class protestants have swallowed the 'You're better off than they are' line for long enough.
At the same time the British owners of Ireland's resources exported among other things, potatoes, the only crop that was productive enough to give the under classes enough food to survive on the miniscule tenant farms for which they paid rack-rents.
To alleviate the suffering Queen Victoria sent £5 and to subdue any complaints about such mercy to the Irish, by the same post sent £5 to Battersea Dogs Home. Even the London Times remarked at the time, 'Britain had permitted in Ireland "a mass of poverty, disaffection, and degradation without a parallel in the world.'
Well, not at any rate until the appearance of Hitler who attempted a similar exercise with the Jews.
So what is the point of trying to win a 'your representatives carried out dreadful crimes' contest?
At some point we must put the past behind us and let Ireland and Britain share a relationship of mutual respect. That requires the abject failure of the 6 north eastern counties statelet to be also put behind us.
Talk is cheap. Abandon all ambitions towards a United Independent Ireland and THEN we can all move on.
I see David Cameron has a new political guru a Mr Phillip Blond who calls himself a Red Tory. He believes political power should be handed over to Community Groups volunteers and Church leaders. He also rejects Thatcherism interesting company for a Tory party leader to keep!
New Times,
Watcher has no conception of history.
Well argued point though, lets await the response
New times, New approach said... Yes what the IRA did was repugnant and contrary to all moral and social values,............ for a man who obviously knows irish history, this is a ridiculous comment, as gerry kelly said, conflict dose not come from outer space. u think what was done in the so-called war of independence was somehow more morally justified than the modern troubles, u really don't know your history. i think if you properly Anallise it you'll find that we in the north were treated twice as bad in 69, than dublin was in the twenty's. you think there's a difference between the irish in the north and those in the south, then the brits have well and truly purchased you lad. yes we need to move on, but lets not distort history. ps. if you think the south got it bad in the twenty's, have a look at the north in the twenty's CHEERE MO CHARA
Pagasp,
I feel that you miss the point of my comments and in your statements of 'we in the north were treated twice as bad in 69, than dublin was in the twenty's' and 'if you think the south got it bad in the twenty's, have a look at the north in the twentys' you are following Watcher into the unwinnable and pointless 'your representatives carried out dreadful crimes' contest.
I willingly admit that Britain was never going to be talked out of Ireland, north or south, but the IRA adopted a deeply morally flawed philosophy, viz we will show that British rule in the six counties is untenable, that a stable society is impossible as long as foreign control remains. To achieve this they planted bomb after bomb sometimes with and sometimes without warnings. Somehow I feel that had your mother, father or children been victims of those bombs, then you would not treat such a campaign with quite the same degree of pragmatic equanimity.
I did not mention the twenties, only the 1840s, but at least the IRA in the war of liberation conducted a campaign directed specifically at the forces of occupation and did not consider Irish people to be an expendable resource as their successors in the recent 'Troubles' have done. They were no better in this than Bomber Harris who saw the civilian populations of Dresden et al as of no human value or indeed the Catholic church whose attitude to it's perverted priests was based on protecting the reputation (and income sources) of their religion and saw the children as being equally expendable.
The world has now forgiven Britain for the Irish famines (and the many other sins committed by it's Empire) and Germany for it's 'Final Solution' and we too must put the past behind us. Ireland can never be strong as long as it fosters division among its countrymen.
How much progress would we have made if we were to only swap republicans as the North's terrorists for loyalists in the new Ireland?
mate i was only disagreeing with the first part of your comment, which i highlighted. the thing is war is morally flawed. back in the war of independence the IRA had a half a chance of defeating the brits fighting morally. as the struggle in the north progressed it was any means possible. THE BRITS GENUINELY COULDN'T GIVE A MONKEYS HOW MANY SOLDIERS WERE KILLED, THEY SAID IT THEMSELVES. THE IIRA FOUGHT TO BRING DOWN A STATE AGAINST ALL ODDS. and it just gets on my rag when u get some ppl from the south who go on as if the modern ira were some kind of scumbags. (obviously not talking about you here)if you look at people like tom barry's view on it, you'll get the opposite opinion, look at the hungry strikers, blinking ten of them. as for your points on the future, i would more or less go along with them completly.
I am from the south and I say that not just are the modern IRA scumbags, they are the lowest form of life. To make any distinction between scumbags of differing shades of green or orange is sheer douchebaggery.
Ireland can be and will and will sooner be reunited by peaceful means.
There is no place for the bomb or the bullet in Ireland's political life.
Anonymous said... I am from the south, yeah yeah watcher, and i'm mary popins, you blithering plank, saunter on you u twonck m
its getting a bit boring. wtf
btw watcher, what age are you. "douchebaggery" i like this word, very cool and with it "old boy", OLD being the operative world. there you go Horseman, another Unionist on his way out. Lay off the false teeth love.
Paul,
You're entirely mistaken in mistaking my post about scumbags for watcher's socket puppetry.
Douchebag is an American word I picked up when I lived in the US. I find it entirely appropriate for violent criminals of either stripe in N.I. Do you need Irish invective too? Alas, I am not aware of word that is quite as redolent of shit.
I certainly wouldn't want our unionist neighbours to think the IRA had support in the south. The idea of peaceful reunification does. The men of violence do not, and suggesting otherwise is wrong and inimical to the aim of peaceful reintegration.
sorry, typo: sock puppetry
watcher is innocent, this time
the ira won the south fact, check some interviews of the main actors of the time, youtube it like.
I am well aware of the fact. The inheritance of the initials by a gang of thugs and murdering criminals who committed countless crimes of a terrorist nature -- attacking civilians -- doesn't entitle them to one iota of the respect accorded to those who fought British rule in Ireland.
A majority of the population of the republic despises the IRA and the provisional IRA.
I think history has softened the image of the "good old IRA" a fair bit, they did actually shoot hundreds of civilians, especially in Munster. Protestant civilians were five times more likely to be killed by the "good old IRA" than Catholics, so they had sectarian murderers in their ranks too.
In the War of Independence the IRA killed about 200 civilians in southern Ireland in two or three years, around 20% of it's victims. According to the CAIN database, less than 30% of PIRA's victims were civilians too. So a slightly "dirtier" war, but not by much. Collin's IRA didn't exactly kill all it's victims in a fair fight either; they weren't a bit shy about shooting men in their beds while they slept if needed be.
The "good old IRA" exists only in people's imaginations, they both fought a dirty war.
my point exactly mate, exactly
I wrote "those who fought against British rule" not "the IRA".
The higher death toll among protestants was largely because they were landowners or establishment figures not simply because of their religion.
The civil war was considerably dirtier than the fight against the British, on both sides.
In any case, debating moral equivalances is pointless. The overwhelming majority of the population of the island of Ireland are opposed to violence.
lets leave it there, mo charas
ireland unfree, will never b at peace, tiocfaidh ar la, free kevin barry nolan, fight til the end, is this what the 10 brave men in the H-BLOCKS died for,, I think NOT!!!! but every man entitled 2 his own opinion, the only thing is that im right, and in 100 years time if a 32 county country is not established sum1 will take my place, history tells us that in all our years of rebellion aganist the crown forces we took a brake for a few years BUT we came back STRONGER, which we will do very soon,,, tiocfaidh ar la comrades,
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