Wednesday 16 September 2009

Vote to be poor

It used to be said that you cannot eat a flag. Nonetheless, that does not mean that flags do not have real monetary value for some people.

A report from the annual survey of hours and earnings in Northern Ireland (ASHE), quoted in today's Irish Times highlights the fact that on average workers in the north earn considerably less than those in the south:

"THE EXTENT of low wages in the North may raise a few southern eyebrows.

According to figures published by ASHE - the annual survey of hours and earnings in Northern Ireland - the current median wage of all Northern employees is just £346 (€393) per week.

The median manufacturing weekly wage is £411, the equivalent rate for those in education is £628, and for those in health and social services the figure is £412.
"

Median wages in the south are considerably higher than those quoted above – a median wage for all employees of scarcely €20,000 a year – in the south it is almost double that figure.

These figures are for the period before the inevitable cuts to come – but since both north and south will suffer from severe cuts it is unlikely that the relative difference will change much.

So unionists, with their obsession with remaining in the UK, are actually voting for a lower standard of living, just for the pleasure of watching the British flag flying!

A factory worker in the north earns a median wage of £411 a week, or €460 at today's rate of exchange. His cousin in the south probably earns around about €200 a week more than that (the data only goes up to 2006, after which southern salaries continued to climb). Thus for each week that the northern unionist factory worker enjoys the sight of the British flag, he loses €200, or £180 – a loss of around £4.50 per working hour!

The same is true in most (all?) other sectors – in education the northern worker on £628 per week (€704) can only look enviously southwards where her sister earns €946 per week on average.

They say turkeys don't vote for Christmas, but oddly enough unionists seem to be happy to vote to be poor.

31 comments:

Mack said...

That isn't much higher than the minimum wage in the south on full hours (approx. €17k).

The average industrial wage is certainly double that figure (or slightly more) at somewhere between €40-44k (including managerial salaries - basing this on a conversion with Michael Taft at Notes On The Front). And I think I heard recently that the average industrial wage in NI was around £27k. The average will be significantly above the median.


Ronan Lyons did an analysis of tax takes here -

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/28/a-little-quiz-on-irelands-income-tax

The median Irish worker pays only 4% tax - compared with an OECD average of 20%. He found the median wage was around €25,000 - which when I looked it up on the revenue's income distribution report for 2006 seems to be correct.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/2008/income-distribution-statistics.pdf

That's still a good 25% higher than the NI Gross median, but not quite as spectacular (and of course large numbers of the lower paid workers are part-timers - students, other young people, mothers etc).


In this analysis (below) he showed that workers on the average industrial wage (which is significantly higher in Ireland) are net benefitors from social transfers, while in the UK they are contributors - contributing almost 25% of their income in tax!

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/04/27/are-irish-workers-undertaxed

Watcher said...

This has got to be the most laughable article yet on this blog (and that's saying something). The Irish lived like pigs for almost 70 years and their only export of worth was people. And where did most of these 'proud Irishmen' go? Yes, you've guessed it - ENGLAND! 'Cruel England', that persecuted The Irish for centuries. Absolutely laughable. You really couldn't make it up. And yet on the back of a couple of decades of economic success, Ulster's Unionists are supposed to throw in their lot with The Irish Republic.

You really couldn't make this nonsense up.

Mack said...

How about those small 'u' Unionists Watcher? Are there any good reasons for supporting the Union left?

pagasp said...

excellent post man, wages in the south are far and away better, and you don't need statistics to know this. another thing is the benefits in the free state, how many unionists use the brit welfare state argument as a reason for staying in the uk watching someone elses flag flying, when of course benefits in the south are 3 times higher, a country or "state" which was found to be the best place to live in, on earth. including wealth per head, freedom, family, environment,fresh air etc etc, this was pre recession, but of course the recession is global.

pagasp said...

watcher u say we lived like pigs for 70 years, but thats post 700 years of rape, takes a while to get over that mo chara

Pedro said...

Your a gas man watcher, promoting the somewhat shaky last ditch defence of Catholic unionism by your grotesque porcine analogies and your rambling about paedo priests. Keep it up! With enemies like you...!

Anonymous said...

That's a good point Watcher- unionists used the economic argument (among others) against unification for years. Then when the RoI became succesful, we got a bit more honesty... Unionists just don't want a united Ireland, regardless of whether they would be better off in it or not.

This is worth bearing in mind; when unionists nervously look at the rising Catholic population many will force a fake laugh. They reassure themselves that in the event of a Catholic majority, Catholics will whip out an Excel spreadsheet, do a few sums, and decide they're better off being a part of the mighty UK.

It's not gonna happen, for the same reason unionists didn't want to be a part of the Celtic Tiger. They just don't want it.

Keep an eye on those birth rates. Tick tock, tick tock.

Anonymous said...

That's a good point Watcher- unionists used the economic argument (among others) against unification for years. Then when the RoI became succesful, we got a bit more honesty... Unionists just don't want a united Ireland, regardless of whether they would be better off in it or not.

This is worth bearing in mind; when unionists nervously look at the rising Catholic population many will force a fake laugh. They reassure themselves that in the event of a Catholic majority, Catholics will whip out an Excel spreadsheet, do a few sums, and decide they're better off being a part of the mighty UK.

It's not gonna happen, for the same reason unionists didn't want to be a part of the Celtic Tiger. They just don't want it.

Keep an eye on those birth rates. Tick tock, tick tock.

Watcher said...

pagasp said:

"watcher u say we lived like pigs for 70 years, but thats post 700 years of rape, takes a while to get over that mo chara"

700 years of rape? I knew the priests had been busy, but really...

Watcher said...

Anonymous said:

"That's a good point Watcher- unionists used the economic argument (among others) against unification for years. Then when the RoI became succesful, we got a bit more honesty... Unionists just don't want a united Ireland, regardless of whether they would be better off in it or not."

GOT IT IN ONE.

"This is worth bearing in mind; when unionists nervously look at the rising Catholic population many will force a fake laugh. They reassure themselves that in the event of a Catholic majority, Catholics will whip out an Excel spreadsheet, do a few sums, and decide they're better off being a part of the mighty UK."

It's not Ulster's Catholics who will be doing the spreadsheet work old boy, It's The Republic's politicians who'll have to present the £4000/year/family tax bill to The Republic's population in order to keep those Northern Catholics in the standard of living England's benevolence has got them used to.

pagasp said...

one word watcher, KINCORA

pagasp said...

mo chara

Watcher said...

pagasp said:

"one word watcher, KINCORA"

Hilarious. One home with a handful of perverts involved, hardly measures up to what went on in the green fascist statelet now does it?

pagasp said...

statelet a strange word u use mo chara

pagasp said...

recognition

Anonymous said...

Watcher's go back to PULSE where bigotry will be applauded. He really has nothing to offer except for the inherent bigotry and sectarianism that's prevalent in Loyalism. If this is what Unionism has left to offer, insults and bigotry, then Unionism is on its last knees.

Wiz

Watcher said...

Irish Nationalism isn't on it's knees, it's dead and buried. And it's all thanks to The Belfast Agreement. Who'd have thought Gerry Adams and his curly side kick would have played such a role in copper fastening The Union?

I wonder what they both got out of it?...

Pedro said...

It's not Ulster's Catholics who will be doing the spreadsheet work old boy, It's The Republic's politicians who'll have to present the £4000/year/family tax bill to The Republic's population in order to keep those Northern Catholics in the standard of living England's benevolence has got them used to.
We will pay up without a whimper, old boy, to be at one with *all* our northern brethren.
4,000 euro; I would have to decide between a second yearly ski trip or unity with my countrymen - an absolute no-brainer.

Watcher said...

Pedro said:

"We will pay up without a whimper, old boy, to be at one with *all* our northern brethren."

You might feel that way, but there'll be plenty of others who won't.

"4,000 euro; I would have to decide between a second yearly ski trip or unity with my countrymen - an absolute no-brainer."

It's Sterling, not Euro and that's the lower end estimate. As for ski trips, I'm afraid that's part of your problem. You see the best way to get Irish Unity was to keep Northern Catholics poor and badly educated. Poor men have nothing to lose and are more prone to violence. And less educated people will take in all the nonsense Irish Nationalists spout.

The other good thing about poor Catholics is that they tend to breed like rabbits. Now in Northern Ireland The Catholic birth rate is heading South, approaching that of Protestants. Why do you think that is? Let me tell you. All those 'good' Catholic
girls of to University to study Gaelic with applied Marxism or whatever, do you think they're interested in being the baby incubators their mothers and grand mothers were? No, they're interested in getting a CAREER (probably working for The UK state), which doesn't allow for ten kids. They are your weak link.

Pedro said...

You might feel that way, but there'll be plenty of others who won't.
Come off it. I happen to know something about how southerners think. You quite obviously do not.
I also happen to know a lot of educated northern Catholics and would treat your opinions here with equal derision.
I take your point about poor northern Catholics having substantially higher birth rates than relatively prosperous ones - although the latter still tend to be ahead of their Protestant counterparts on this yardstick - as you would have found out if you had actually paid attention to Horseman's incisive analyses.
This means that the 50 years of unionist misrule, which generated all those 'poor' but prolific Catholics, actually brought its own retribution - by perversely turning the demographic tide against unionism. The opportunity (to secure the union) was squandered by blinkered sectarianism.
As usual, watcher, you are the absolute master of wishful thinking.

Anonymous said...

Why do you all bother with watcher, andrew or what ever name takes his fancy. He is English and does not live on our Emerald Isle. He has no clue as to what is happening on the ground in Ireland, North or South, so his opinion is simply that, his opinion and as far as I`m concerned bears no weight in any discussion about Ireland. He has a cheek to purport to know what Irishmen will or will not do or pay for to achieve the peaceful and democratic reunification of Ireland. Give him a wide berth since all he does is annoy and inflame in the so called name of Unionism.

I suppose he has a function though, keeping the counter going and comments keep coming. Horseman must be flattered on that level. I for one have a pain in my .... with him and his 19th century inspired bigotry.

MPG .....

pagasp said...

here here, mo chara

Anonymous said...

Munsterman says :

I very much welcome Watcher's contributions.

To some extent he reminds me of my favourite unionist politician of all time, Ian Paisley. Without question, Ian Paisley has done more damage to unionism than any other unionist individual in the past 80 years. His passing will be a loss - to Irish Nationalism. But in fairness, he has already done irreparable damage to the unionist cause so we certainly will have gotten our money's worth. Jimmy "the Gun-Runner" Craig must be revolving at the speed of light in his grave when he sees the state unionism finds itself in today.

Fortunately, Paisley appears to be a role-model for several unionist wannabees so that's excellent news for Irish Nationalism. Unionist leaders appear to be having a scorpion-like contest among themselves to see which one can generate the most froth and foam at the mouth -rather like Watcher.

Watcher is having a blinder and doing invaluable work on behalf of Irish Nationalism and I would urge all my fellow Nationalists to encourage him to continue to spread his contributions far and wide as he - unwittingly it would appear - continues to undermine what remains of unionism.

With the demographic time-bomb steadily eating away at unionism's rapidily diminshing sandbank, unionism's only hope is that a truly charismatic, intelligent unionist leader with vision might emerge who would reach out and win over Irish Natioalists in the north.

Fortunately - for Irish Nationalisism - this possibility reamains theoretical only.

Watcher said...

Pedro said:

"I take your point about poor northern Catholics having substantially higher birth rates than relatively prosperous ones - although the latter still tend to be ahead of their Protestant counterparts on this yardstick - as you would have found out if you had actually paid attention to Horseman's incisive analyses.
This means that the 50 years of unionist misrule, which generated all those 'poor' but prolific Catholics, actually brought its own retribution - by perversely turning the demographic tide against unionism. The opportunity (to secure the union) was squandered by blinkered sectarianism."

How amusing. It was the Catholic church's opposition to contraception that led to large RC families. Protestant birth rates started to fall as soon as the pill became widely available. It just took twenty years for Catholic women to wise up and do the same.

By the way, in traditional RC countries such as Spain and Italy, once the downward trend in births began, it didn't stop...

Watcher said...

MPG said:

"I suppose he has a function though, keeping the counter going and comments keep coming. Horseman must be flattered on that level."

Yes, happy to help! Not a bad blog - at least on a superficial level...

Watcher said...

Munsterman says :

"With the demographic time-bomb steadily eating away at unionism's rapidily diminshing sandbank"

Not according to the opinion polls.

"unionism's only hope is that a truly charismatic, intelligent unionist leader with vision might emerge who would reach out and win over Irish Natioalists in the north."

I don't believe for a minute that those who see themselves as Irish Nationalists (let alone Irish Republicans) can be won over in the way you suggest. The people I'm interested in wouldn't describe themselves in this manner. No, they are from a Catholic background and may even be practising Catholics, but they would not see themselves as Irish Nationalists.

Some might see Paisley's attitude to abortion, homosexuality and feminism as more important than his position on the border, after all to the most devout of Catholics, these issues are far more important than any temporal concerns.

Anonymous said...

Still banging on about these so-called Catholic Unionists? It's clear that these so-called Catholic Unionists are Unionisms last line of defence. If so, then Unionism is buggered because as we all know they do not exist.

Wiz

Anonymous said...

Catholic Unionists is about as believable as black Ku Klux Klan members. Even with a small "u" lol.

Watcher said...

Wiz said:

"Still banging on about these so-called Catholic Unionists? It's clear that these so-called Catholic Unionists are Unionisms last line of defence. If so, then Unionism is buggered because as we all know they do not exist."

They do exist - every opinion poll in Northern Ireland proves it. They may not vote for a Unionist party, but they support the maintenance of The Union. If a border poll is ever called (about as likely as The Irish talking any sense), they will vote in adequate numbers to keep The Union secure.

Watcher said...

Anonymous said:

"Catholic Unionists is about as believable as black Ku Klux Klan members. Even with a small "u" lol."

Another retard. Or is it just the same one as before?

pagasp said...

i thought that was quite funny, even with a small u, u twonck