Thursday 8 October 2009

Why brains drain

This blog has looked at the touchy issue (for unionists, at least) of the so-called 'Protestant Brain Drain'. Today a new report has been released that may add a little light to this dark corner - the 2009 World University Rankings.

In the top 200 universities in the world, although Britain is well represented, neither Queen's University nor the University of Ulster are present. In other words, neither QUB nor the UU offer an education that is better than, for instance, Universiti Malaya (UM) (place 180), Lancaster University (place 162) or Chulalongkorn University in Thailand (place 138).

For a decent education, therefore, the 'cream of Ulster' have to go elsewhere. Perhaps the DUP could suggest that they forsake the grey skies of 'Ulster' for the academically superior skies of Dublin - where Trinity College stands at number 43 worldwide, and UCD at number 89.

Of course many unionists have studied in Dublin, mostly in Trinity - including Carson himself of course. The advantage for the unionist community of its young studying in Dublin as opposed to London or Edinburgh is that they are likely to retain closer ties with home (only a short trip away) and are more likely to remain on the island after graduation. But for unionist politicians to promote such an option - better for their children's education, better for their own community - would be to admit that Dublin is not a 'foreign country' a million miles away, and that the south offers better educational opportunities than the north.

They would rather consign their children to either emigration or a sub-standard education.

19 comments:

Nordie Northsider said...

I remember commenting on a blog you produced a short while ago about the falling sales figures for the Unionist paper the News Letter. I speculated that one aspect of the Unionist insistance on Britishness is a preference for 'mainland' things and a neglect of the local. If you're as British as a Londoner why not read the same papers? This earned the wrath of 'liberal Unionist' Chekov who cited my comment as an example of the sectarian nature of 'Ulster's Doomed' (nothwithstanding the fact that the then Newsletter editor had raised more or less the same point in a discussion on BBC's Talkback programme a short while earlier). I think it's a valid point. It never entered my head to travel to a university in Britain any more than I would have thought of going to a college in Canada or New Zealand. If I were raised in a culture that would have us 'as British as Finchley' I dare say the bright lights of London (or Edinburgh or Cardiff) would have been more alluring. One of the sad features of partition is an alienation among Ulster Protestants for the island they live on.

Horseman said...

Nordie Northsider,

This issue is one of unionism's Achilles Heels, I reckon. The more they protest that they are 'simply British', the greater the chance that their young will take them at their word, and go and live in Britain. By trying to keep their young in NI they implicitly accept its 'separateness' - as the DUP do (hence many view them as 'Ulster ntionalists'). Its a lose-lose situation for unionism - either they accept that NI is not as British as Finchley, or they lose the demographic battle.

Much as I dislike the DUP, at least they have the brains to see that. They are fairly clear about their objectives - to keep as many Prods in NI in order to keep a unionist majority. Their 'Britishness' comes a poor second.

Mack said...

Horseman -

Good points, but you are playing to the (nationalist) gallery rather than persuading (unionists). I thought this article was interesting on how to phrase things..

http://paulgraham.com/discover.html

All of this should be easily achievable (for mutual economic and social benefit) with a cross-border body that could merge NI UCAS and southern CAO applications into a single island-wide process.

Horseman said...

Mack,

Do you think I am seeking to persuade unionists to stay in the north, and thus to frustrate nationalist ambitions?

I am very happy for Protestants to stay (as in the south), but certainly not unionists. My intentions, in this piece at least, is to demonstrate to unionists that their own politicians are selling them short, and that unionism is not necessarily in their interests.

MaleStripper said...

Horseman -

In that case you're doing a shit job.

Anonymous said...

He seems to have your attention Andy!

MaleStripper said...

Why are you calling me Andy Mr Anonymous? You're not Horsemanure himself are you?

Anonymous said...

Not Horseman, but I have brain you tool.

Lets see;

Watcher
Male2Stripper

or whatever name you pick to try to back up your opinions.

All write the same
All share the same idea's

Then whenever either Watcher or whatever identity you chose gets into an argument on here, suddenly Andrew McCann is writing an article over at ATW talking about the same thing.

Coincidence?????

Nevermind that you published on here a few months ago using your real name.

Andrew McCann disappeared, Watcher showed up the next day writing and sharing the same opinions as Andrew.

Coincidence?????

Your a joke

Robert Emmet 1803 said...

Fantastic to read about protestant brain drain.Wouldnt it be better to call it "Orange Brain Drain " as some of Irelands best patriots were protestant,Robert Emmet himself not to mention Wolfetone.

Is there any evidence of a catholic brain drain - please God there isnt.

Watcher said...

Anonymous said:

"Not Horseman, but I have brain you tool.

Lets see;

Watcher
Male2Stripper

or whatever name you pick to try to back up your opinions.

All write the same
All share the same idea's

Then whenever either Watcher or whatever identity you chose gets into an argument on here, suddenly Andrew McCann is writing an article over at ATW talking about the same thing.

Coincidence?????

Nevermind that you published on here a few months ago using your real name.

Andrew McCann disappeared, Watcher showed up the next day writing and sharing the same opinions as Andrew.

Coincidence?????

Your a joke"

You're really suffering aren't you? Was this how so many IRA volunteers ended up dead in an Armagh ditch?

LOLOLOL

Watcher said...

Robert Emmet 1803 said:

"Fantastic to read about protestant brain drain.Wouldnt it be better to call it "Orange Brain Drain " as some of Irelands best patriots were protestant,Robert Emmet himself not to mention Wolfetone."

I fear you're failing to take on board the point of this blog dear boy...

Anonymous said...

He also has the annoying habit of quoting the entire comment when it is not necessary.

Not quite bright that Andy!

Nordie Northsider said...

Wouldn't it be best to simply ignore the baiting comments of Male Stripper, Watcher etc? I couldn't care less who he is.

Bert said...

The Irish have good Uni's...
The english have good Uni's...
The Welsh have good Uni's...
The Scots have good Uni's...

Sadly, the poor Orange Loyalist people have none. As well as no identity.

Pull your heads out of the 16th century Loyalist people.

Watcher said...

Bert said:

"The Irish have good Uni's...
The english have good Uni's...
The Welsh have good Uni's...
The Scots have good Uni's...

Sadly, the poor Orange Loyalist people have none. As well as no identity.

Pull your heads out of the 16th century Loyalist people."

Well, I can see that this was posted by a graduate (at least!) - LOLOLOL

If the universities in Ulster are so bad, why are they full of Irish Catholics? Can't they get into mainland universities? Or why don't they go and 'matriculate' themselves in the southern cess pit?

LOL

Anonymous said...

> If the universities in Ulster are so bad, why are they full of Irish Catholics?

Leaving aside the quality of the universities for a moment, the simple answer is

for the same reason that Scottish universities are mainly full of mainly Scottish people and Irish universities mainly full of mainly Irish people.

Most people study where the universities are and universities are where the people are. Simple.

In fact many N.I. students, of both persuasions and none, do study in the south and always have done. At one time Trinity was exclusively the preserve of Protestants and a majority came from the North (along with many from the UK).

Trinity has been assimilated into Irish culture and life, just as universities in Ulster will be when Ireland is reunited.

Eddierude said...

so thats andy pandy! he never did have the huevos to stand behind his mouth thats why he won't allow commenting. Coward stans behind a tree tossing stones at the brave ones walking by

Anonymous said...

It is extremely interesting for me to read that post. Thanx for it. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. I definitely want to read a bit more on that blog soon.

Anonymous said...

Keep on posting such articles. I like to read blogs like that. By the way add some pics :)